This was written the day we tried to set up my son’s RDSP at the local Barrhaven TD Branch. I will leave it as I wrote it. It reflects my frustration with the TD RDSP setup, which was a new program, and how the Bank and the Government seemed hell-bent to make the RDSP as hard as possible to use.
My wife and I spent over an hour working with our TD Directline rep attempting to set up an RDSP with TD Directline. Luckily the rep had already pre-read as much information was available from TD about the RDSP (i.e. not very much), and so we spent 45 minutes filling in paper forms (yes, it is all paperwork, nothing can be done on-line).
What really had my head spinning was:
- The large volume of paper forms (that will have the same information transferred to a computer later)
- The relation of the exact same information
A number of times, my wife’s name, address, and other info was bad. The reason we were given is because this is a new program for TD the enrolment is not automated. Hopefully one day they will automate it, because this paper trail stuff is superfluous. I had to live through this last year when I opened a Retirement Fund, but I believe I have an answer as to why all this paperwork is necessary.
Each group inside of TD (and any other bank I would guess) that is part of the RDSP system (e.g. accounting, trading, web interface, etc.,) want information. Each design a form that will get all the information they want. This made the TD RDSP setup system quite complicated, and redundant. The better way would be to have a single larger form which is then shared with all the groups involved in the set up. I would guess, there are no bonuses paid internally at TD (or most other banks) to streamline customer interface systems, thus the problem is unlikely to be solved in the near future.
It is hard to comprehend that the RDSP will not be hooked into the on-line banking capabilities any time soon either.
Large firms continue to have individual “fiefdoms” of technology or information inside the firm feels they are omnipotent and worse still, isolated, from other groups, so they simply attempt to make their own lives simpler, and figure out what small part of a larger problem they have, and optimize the solution for their purposes only.
My Opinion of the RDSP TD Directline System
I don’t mean to pick on TD, but this period of time got me thinking about when I deal with Bell, Rogers, Any Bank, Hospitals and other customer facing industries/companies it is rare you run into a Customer Initiation system that makes it easy for a new customer to be created.
Remember to read more on my page RDSP : Working with The Account describing the issues we have had with the RDSP program.
CIBC really had no clue about RDSP plans. They insisted that my daughter (28) review and make decisions about mutual fund risk and they want to do all the business by PHONE (everything by phone). I told them not possible but they wouldn’t stop. I asked how do they deal with someone who can’t speak, hear or make decisions about their life with the CIBC; they were clueless to how to handle it. The bank manager and mutual fund manager said, “Not our business, we don’t have a license to talk to you.” I fussed so much, they would tape my conversations and tried to get me to sign a paper saying I wouldn’t ask for any payment because of their mistakes – I didn’t sign. Two years and now they want the same thing, my daughter to make decisions about this acct. All I wanted was a protected plan for my daughter – a simple account would have been easier for all.
I would start squawking louder, on line, and maybe get a “power of attorney” or “power of financial stewardship”(??! I really don’t know what the heck this is called, but talk to an attorney or ask the CRA about it too), so they can’t be such douche-bags (a technical financial term) about things.
For Ontario: http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/family/pgt/poakit.php
Maybe Check here too: http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/family/pgt/incapacity/index.php
I fussed to the point that they assigned my my own “special person” to talk to me. She started each conversation with “I have to tell you we’re recording this conversation.” I decided to continue each conversation with “I have to tell you I’m recording you too.” They didn’t like that. The bank DID finally come up with a paper that gives me permission to make decisions, for my daughter, and this account. They screwed around so much with the acct that I lost over $300 in interest which they gave me. They were always trying to blame the CRA so I called them and told me the bank wasn’t doing their job and sending in the bond requests etc. I’ve only had the acct. 2 years so I deposited my token $1500 every Dec 1. Again they started acting like jack asses. They want to talk to my daughter (by phone) about risk. I told nope she won’t understand and they INSIST, giving me permission to be in the same room. I WISH it was a simple account, I go to the bank, I move money around but it is so COMPLICATED and draining. Everyone has forgot what the purpose of the account is – a nest egg for a disabled person. A gift of a grant and bond to make it grow. It should be SIMPLE – not a test.
Yup, I think it is important to have a guardianship or power of attorney to protect your child in this situation. I think the bank is acting like douches, but they are also following the rules (i.e. once your child is over 18 (an adult in the eyes of the law) you have no say in their financial world, unless the child gives you permission).
CIBC created a “power of attorney” which we all signed that would address me making decisions (for my daughter) going forward. I got the permission. Two years later they don’t like their own paperwork. Not very disability friendly. I think I’ll just ignore them for awhile. Last time I called in their ombudsman to make them fly straight. The CRA were great to talk to. If I walk into my local CIBC they freak when they see this type of account, they have no training, license to work on it, no experience with disabled clients, they throw up their hands and run around saying, “Not Me.”
There was one lady, at the branch, who has known us forever. She knows the struggle and she knew the securities were being knobs. She went beyond her license to help and she got in trouble for it.
Listen big banks. The disability account isn’t for you. Folks on a disability are only allowed $5,000 in assets. This is a big thing to protect extra money they may inherit or earn up to $200,000. They get a $1000 bond every year up to 10 years and any extra money they add gets matched x3. The CRA never meant it to be kaos, it was suppose to help the less fortunate.
A disabled person NEEDS this to have a face to face account. We should be able to make an appt at a bank and get service with a REAL person who knows what they are doing. This decision making, moving money into a RDSP, getting information all by phone is nonsense. Depending on the disability impossible.
Mr. Cajun Man: Super thank you for all the info. Where were you 2 years ago when I was ripping my hair out, it grew back nicely though. Bottom line it’s all about SERVICE.
I was here 🙂 . I am glad Ellen Roseman sent you in my direction though, please feel free to send folks over here, and over to http://asdfunding.com/ as well . The Banks are going to protect themselves from litigation, but the way they make things this convoluted is really discouraging. Not sure what a “local power of attorney” might be (maybe their lawyers figured out this might not stand up in court?).
Keep me posted on things, I’ll be here, and I am on Twitter and many other places too.
Oh and you are now empowered to help other folks too! Parents of disabled children are a fellowship.
I managed to deposit our yearly contribution which is all I really care about. If they want to talk to my daughter, with autism, about Mutual Fund risks, it might be great for a laugh. I drove them nuts 2 years ago. They tried to get me to sign a disclaimer that I wouldn’t pursue them sometime in the future. I’m pretty sure I used stronger language than “bite me.”
Do you know which bank is doing the best job of handling these RDSP?
I have another friend going to open the same account for her daughter, I’m going to go along to see if there has been any improvement in the process. Maybe I can be of some help.
Best?!? Well, there is no “best” out there, but the one with the most flexibility in terms of what you can invest in is TD Waterhouse for now. It has it’s own problems (check my RDSP page for those), but that is where my son has his RDSP .
No too sure what Michael James meant about a “deposit” account. There are lots of Equity based mutual funds available for the RDSP. And since this is a long term plan for most people, “deposit like” investments aren’t the best choice.
The funds can be accessed for any reason and at any time if your contributions are greater than the government. If not then after a 10 year “holdback period” a “rif like” pension payment can start. Most people will start this payment in their later years or at the latest before they turn 60.
This plan shouldn’t be disparaged as it is a huge step forward for those those with disabilites. As Canadians we should be proud that we are the first country in the world to have this type of plan.
We shouldn’t be proud of the Leafs though….
I’m out like TO hockey…
I think he was being “whimsical” in the fact that all the rules and such are not well understood by most folks (including the banks offering them as savings vehicles). It looks like a good idea, hence why I am opening one, but as I mentioned I am not too sure if I can even deposit anything easily just yet.
Are you sure you were really at TD? Maybe your RDSP contribution is in cash right now in some warm part of the world. Maybe RDSP stands for Registered Deposit-only Savings Plan. Good luck with the withdrawals.
That was one of the points made, was that we were not sure how money actually came out of the fund, or even how to deposit money, right now we are simply attempting to open the account
Excellent take on the RDSP however, a DEPOSIT ONLY account is an interesting concept.